• Registered: 2011-01-25
  • Posts: 8

Topic: Open/Close Point and Logic Combinations can cause Casual Entry/Exit(?)

Dear Developers!


First, a big Thank You for this exciting tool.


I'm already experimenting with all MT4 FOREX pairs my broker offers, for 2-3 weeks on a demo, and now for 1-2 week on a real (not the same data flow as the demo) account with micro-lots.

As I use the FSB v2.56.4.0 Generator to get better and better strategies for each pairs, several times I met the following interesting symptom.
I use 5M chart with data from 2010/10/15 to Now (~20.000 bars) and the generated strategies are trading 5-25 times using this historical data this time-period.

Usually, after a multi-indicator Opening, there is a Day or Week Closing Point with a Logic of
- some indicator(s) Change(s) Direction
- some indicator(s) Cross(es) the Zero Line
- the Bar Closes Below/Over the Previous Bar Closing
- etc.
I'd like to denote that they are Logics which are based on the previous bar on the 5M chart and happens several times a day and much more times a week each directions.
However the result is a profitable strategy on the historical data.

So my questions are:
When the Generator examines those many times each directions happened Logic just at a certain time of Day or Week Closing, isn't it just a casual decision of Close or Not to Close the position?
If the answer is yes, is there any way to filter out strategies based on casual decisions or at least user-disable some indicators or combinations can cause casual decisions?
If the answer is yes, how to do that? If the answer is no, can I kindly ask it as a feature-request?


Many Thanks and Greetings.

  • Popov
  • Popov
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  • From: Bulgaria
  • Registered: 2006-11-30
  • Posts: 8,024

Re: Open/Close Point and Logic Combinations can cause Casual Entry/Exit(?)

There is no easy way to limit the indicators or generated logic rules. I'll see how I can make possible for the user to ban some indicators for the generator.

Popov's Website

  • Registered: 2011-01-25
  • Posts: 8

Re: Open/Close Point and Logic Combinations can cause Casual Entry/Exit(?)

Dear D-n Popov!


Thank you for your quick answer.


I totally understand that it's hard to programmatically distinguish casual logics or indicators causing them.
However as my idea that maybe a good way to inspect if the sign of a given indicator occurs much-much more (eg a given number) than the signs of any other or just the most rarely active parts of the logic, and get out the indicator or the whole strategy based on the logic containing it.

But the ability of banning unwanted indicators also can be a good starting point to workaround this problem.

If possible to develop into the app.


Many Greetings.

  • Popov
  • Popov
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  • Registered: 2006-11-30
  • Posts: 8,024

Re: Open/Close Point and Logic Combinations can cause Casual Entry/Exit(?)

However as my idea that maybe a good way to inspect if the sign of a given indicator occurs much-much more (eg a given number) than the signs of any other or just the most rarely active parts of the logic

Ten years ago I was developing a self educational forex strategy back tester. It become extremely complex, big, and ineffective. After that, when I started FSB, I considered adding such elements to Generator. For example a stats data base of the indicators and logical rules that participate in the best strategies for a given symbol and period. In such way the Generator will be faster because can start searching the indicators with higher rating. But I dropped that idea because I decided that this will lead to producing more similar strategies. with the time.

Another idea I considered was a possibility to add a scripting algorithm programmed by the user. But dropped this because we have MetaTrader where a user can programme everything.

The purpose of the Generator is to be fast and to give different winning strategies. But this strategies can be further refined by the user.
One can shape the generated strategy by playing with the number of slots and locking / linking (in the next version) some of the indicators.
Of course a list of indicators to be avoided will be further improvement.

Popov's Website

5 Reply by genifor (edited by genifor 2011-01-26 07:24:13)

  • Registered: 2010-12-27
  • Posts: 20

Re: Open/Close Point and Logic Combinations can cause Casual Entry/Exit(?)

Dear Mr Popov,

Very enthusiastic about the programs!

What about the idea of adding the following option to  the Generator Settings: "ONLY USE DEFAULT INDICATOR VALUES".

This would offer the following advantages:

- Much faster generating process.
- Prevents much unnecessary and unwanted curvefitting.

When one feels that one or more indicators - as found by the Generator - need tweaking, this could always be done afterwards through the Optimizer or by hand.

  • zenoni
  • zenoni
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  • Registered: 2009-10-25
  • Posts: 339

Re: Open/Close Point and Logic Combinations can cause Casual Entry/Exit(?)

genifor wrote:

Dear Mr Popov,

Very enthusiastic about the programs!

What about the idea of adding the following option to  the Generator Settings: "ONLY USE DEFAULT INDICATOR VALUES".

I agree that this is a good proposal. If I run the generator too long then it starts to overoptimization of the strategy.

  • Popov
  • Popov
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  • Registered: 2006-11-30
  • Posts: 8,024

Re: Open/Close Point and Logic Combinations can cause Casual Entry/Exit(?)

"ONLY USE DEFAULT INDICATOR VALUES" - will be in next version

Popov's Website

  • Registered: 2011-01-25
  • Posts: 8

Re: Open/Close Point and Logic Combinations can cause Casual Entry/Exit(?)

Popov wrote:

One can shape the generated strategy by playing with the number of slots and locking / linking (in the next version) some of the indicators.
Of course a list of indicators to be avoided will be further improvement.

Yes, this way is effective and can be more effective with the possibility of banning some indicators.
The most "dangerous" ones can causing casual logics are which close a given time (Day/Week) or open once (Day/Week - can be disabled by locking to Bar) with a combination of much-much more frequently signing ones.

However as a static solution this way carries the danger of backfiring if won't find a "good" strategy missing the banned indicators.

But if this is the only way and there is no programmatic possibility to inspect the logic against casual operations it's absolutely OK.

So thank you for developing in.

  • Popov
  • Popov
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  • Registered: 2006-11-30
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Re: Open/Close Point and Logic Combinations can cause Casual Entry/Exit(?)

if ... there is no programmatic possibility to inspect the logic against casual operations...

The problem is not a limitation in programming but in finding a good algorithm for identifying "casual operations".
If someone provides reliable criteria for that, I'll include it in the program.

Popov's Website

10 Reply by Master (edited by Master 2011-01-27 09:14:36)

  • Registered: 2011-01-25
  • Posts: 8

Re: Open/Close Point and Logic Combinations can cause Casual Entry/Exit(?)

Popov wrote:

The problem is not a limitation in programming but in finding a good algorithm for identifying "casual operations".
If someone provides reliable criteria for that, I'll include it in the program.

Yes, understand, I meant this way.

As I mentioned before I think of as a good starting point when you simply inspect if any indicators of the logic gives sign significantly much-much more frequently than any other. Then you can declare that the concerned indicator is a casual factor of the logic therefore does the full logic casual.
And yes: the key is the "significantly" - you know I don't really like constants in a dynamic environment, but maybe worth a try if you say it's maximum of 10, 100, 1000 or even more times when to start mistrust getting a rough filtering. Or maybe this "Uncertainty Factor" could be a limiter or filter. Here you can also keep the original functionality when set this value to "infinite" (checked off).
The primary goal is just to filter out those worst case scenarios when there is a very rarely signing (eg Day or Week) indicator with a very frequently signing (eg every 2-5. Bar on a small time-frame chart) as on a 5M chart with a change direction or cross a level line or rising etc. natured indicator combined with a weekly inspection indicator can result an uncertainty factor of thousand or more which results to be messed up the generated good looking strategy.