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Posts: 25

Topic: setting stop losses for crypto pairs

Hi All
please could anyone advise i have run EA in mt4 on demo i then used Fx Blue to generate MAE and MFE statistics Fx blue generate the MAE stat in pips which is what I want as a stop loss .
The crypto pair
Eth in EA studio stop loss is set in pips if fx blue gave MAE as 300 pips is this entered in ea studio as 30000 stop loss
thanks all please advise

Re: setting stop losses for crypto pairs

How many decimal digits you have for the instrument you trade? Is it BTCUSD?

Re: setting stop losses for crypto pairs

hi mr P
its ETHUSD two decimal place

Re: setting stop losses for crypto pairs

In that case, 300 pips are equal to 3 USD

When you have digits equal to 2 or 4, 1 pip = 1 point.

To be easier for you, you can determine the SL / TP ranges in USD.
When you have 2 digits, 1 USD = 100 pips.

If you need SL of 20 USD, for example, you can set 2000 pips in EA Studio.

Re: setting stop losses for crypto pairs

the generator was run with stop loss min 1000 and max 2000 take  profit 3000 and 4000
Generator msg cannot make enough deals from this data set improper range of stop loss improper range of take profit
symbol settings state original settings from data file
digits 2
spread 790
lot size 1
point value 1.00

Re: setting stop losses for crypto pairs

If the Generator cannot find strategies for this market and those conditions, it simply means that it is not cost-effective.

For the Generator (and for you), the particular market doesn't matter. It is always the best to trade on the market with the lowest trading cost.

The spread of 790 pips of ETHUSD (equal to 7.9 USD ) is equivalent to the spread of 79000 pips for EURUSD. I'm sure there is no experienced trader who will trade it when the usual EURUSD spread is 1 pip.

The higher spread can be only acceptable when the market has very high volatility or trendiability.

Re: setting stop losses for crypto pairs

thanks for the reply in the two years using ea studio I have never had a profitable month maybe I'm stupid

Re: setting stop losses for crypto pairs

Salome,

Please send me your EA Studio account's email via PM to check it and to upgrade your account to "Licensed User".

I cannot find a licensed user with your name or email.

9 (edited by hannahis 2021-04-15 23:54:39)

Re: setting stop losses for crypto pairs

salome wrote:

thanks for the reply in the two years using ea studio I have never had a profitable month maybe I'm stupid

Can anyone learn forex? Yes

Is forex meant for anyone? No

Sometimes, self depreciating words can send some kind soul to the rescue but I rarely seen anyone ever succeed with such attitude.  In forex, we sometimes need exchange of tips and ideas but it never would be the contribution to one's success. 

In forex, you need grit (In psychology, grit is a positive, non-cognitive trait based on an individual's perseverance of effort combined with the passion for a particular long-term goal or end state (a powerful motivation to achieve an objective).  So if anyone thinks Forex is an easy get rich quick path....you probably fooled by some advertisement.

So this would answer my second question, Is Forex meant for anyone?

If only that person has grit.  Otherwise quit now.  Quitting may not necessarily be a dirty word.  Knowing that something is not meant for you, it's better to quit earlier than to quit later.  EA Studio is just a tool that need some brain works to get what you want.  EA Studio is Not a brainless tool.  And to succeed in Forex is a profession.

Is 2 years long? Some of us have been here for more than a decade, lol

Re: setting stop losses for crypto pairs

thanks Hana for the suggestion I have been trading for 21 years I have a small idea of markets

11 (edited by hannahis 2021-04-16 08:10:26)

Re: setting stop losses for crypto pairs

salome wrote:

thanks Hana for the suggestion I have been trading for 21 years I have a small idea of markets


Cool 21 years aren't short for such a grit like yours, cheers smile

You can use EA Studio to input your trading ideas but I find it more useful to just like the software do the data mining but you use your years of experience and your understanding of market behaviours such as the daily range, market volatility etc to input your EA studio settings.  (I totally agree with Tnickle that manipulating input settings is one of the way to prevent over fitting.  Because when we input our settings with sound trading theory, we direct the software to search for EA with sound trading framework and not the result of some random find that happened to fit into the curve)

With your input of settings, you let EA Studio generate some EA and you demo test them and from the demo results, you can...

1) Pick the best performing EA and use it as Preset indicator

a) Now Popov has made some recent changes that enable users to have greater control over the Max number of Entry and Exit.

b) Examine your Preset EA and see where is the weakness, poor entry or poor exit.  If it's poor exit, "lock" your entry indicators by using the Max Entry = to the number of Preset Indicator entry (this is the new changes that Popov made just a few days ago, so you are in luck to finally get to use it to your fullest advantage).  When you "lock" your entry indicators (eg Preset has 4 entry indicators = Max Entry allowed = 4), EA studio will only focus to look for better exit indicators for you. 

Likewise do the same for Poor Entry EA (which is not likely if you choose the best performing EA)

2) Look at your demo result of the EA and see any particular period the EA has declined in it's performance.

Attached is an example of an EA starting to decline in it's recent performance.  Extract this EA out of the PE (portfolio expert) and re-import it back and in your data choose the period/duration whereby your EA started to decline and use that data set to "train" your EA to survive better under that circumstances.  You probably want to add now some additional Entry indicators to improve it and probably I'll remove the exit entry and let EA studio search for a better new exit to match the additional new entry indicators.  Eg In the attached EA's performance, No. 1 top performer but the EA started to decline in mth of Feb onward, I'll use data from Feb 2021 till now to "retrain" the EA to do better under such trading conditions (hopefully, it would not make it's previous performance worst off). 

To make this EA more robust, I can use data source from multiple pairs with period Feb onward to "retrain" the EA.  Because data from Feb 2021 till now is very short and insufficient, using multiple markets/pairs would expose the EA to various market situations during this same period and hopefully give it adequate data to retrain itself.

3) Optimize the best EA and hopefully it improves further without destroying the EA's "profitable" framework to totally alter or destroy it's profitable trading foundation.  One of the safest method is to optimise the TP, SL and optimise the Exit indicators.  I optimise the Entry indicators one by one to have greater control over what I really want to change.  Or I add in my own entry indicator to it that I think in my opinion would make the EA more stable.


4) Pick an EA with many multiple entries and use as preset to see whether EA studio can add in more entry indicators to remove some of these false entries that is making this EA to lose money.

I believe with your 21 years of trading experience, you certainly have ideas to make this software work for you and we can surely benefit from your wealth of experience with your contribution to the community here.  Hope to hear you share with us your trading nuggets smile

Regards
Hannah

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Re: setting stop losses for crypto pairs

thanks some really great ideas I work for a large bank there trading floor has mostly mathematician and engineers at hand there are no programmers as in the past could not really convey there thought processes to the techs so I was tasked to find software solution that would support the traders with a solution to automate there own processes hence EA studio underlying this is our extensive use of Monte carlo solutions and genetic optimization methods  to produce key metric and indicator setting s which im struggling with how the two can integrate with EA studio or Quant X

13 (edited by hannahis 2021-04-17 08:51:06)

Re: setting stop losses for crypto pairs

salome wrote:

thanks some really great ideas I work for a large bank there trading floor has mostly mathematician and engineers at hand there are no programmers as in the past could not really convey there thought processes to the techs so I was tasked to find software solution that would support the traders with a solution to automate there own processes hence EA studio underlying this is our extensive use of Monte carlo solutions and genetic optimization methods  to produce key metric and indicator setting s which im struggling with how the two can integrate with EA studio or Quant X

Would you mind to share more about the concept behind your Monte Carlo solutions and genetic optimization and what key metrics do you look for?

When you mention about integration with EA Studio, are you referring to integrating your custom indicators or integrating your extensive uses of Monte Carlo solution n genetic optimization work processes into EA Studio?

You are tasked to find software solution that would support the traders with a solution to automate their own processes...so are you also one of the traders or one of the "mathematician, engineers or programmers or both a trader and programmer?

Re: setting stop losses for crypto pairs

hi mostly on the trading side we use palisade @ RISK software however this require that trading ideas and or concepts be developed in excel  once this is done its run through a powerful time series modeling process this is then passed for optimization using either a genetic process or neural network to find patterns the genetic process is a bit more complicated as it requires a understanding of genetics and the different schools of thought Darwin and evolutionary biology
settings required are crossover rates and mutation rates from the parent being the original sample data
its a lot of mumbo jumbo how I use it very simply
we base everything on money management and require only two things put me into a trade and take me out don't care how if for example my trades are based on a metric say cagr/mean drawdown or normalized profit factor the ìdea would be to take the  profit loss stream fit a stochastic time series model to that from ea studio this provides a forecasting model to the add the variables that affect that metric  say normalized profit factor stagnation count of trades win loss ratio blah blah this is then passed to the optimization process ect to find the best settings ect hard for.me to articulate sorry would be moving average crossover whats the best ma period to use 10 23 46 ... in order to give me the highest profit or lowest standard deviation

Re: setting stop losses for crypto pairs

its jus to give the traders a ea solution as they not programmer not trying to integrate to software solutions that would stand separately as my original question on the crypto pair the stop loss and take profit was modeled and risk blur distribution produced which gave a range for the take profit so when I entered this into ea studio I couldn't generate strategies which I couldn't understand as this was the.most optimal area to take profit based on 6 million trails run so that why the original post of me saying am I stupid or jus missing something if I suggest ea studio as a solution to the traders I would need to guide them through ea studios workflow

Re: setting stop losses for crypto pairs

its jus to give the traders a ea solution as they not programmer not trying to integrate to software solutions that would stand separately as my original question on the crypto pair the stop loss and take profit was modeled and risk blur distribution produced which gave a range for the take profit so when I entered this into ea studio I couldn't generate strategies which I couldn't understand as this was the.most optimal area to take profit based on 6 million trails run so that why the original post of me saying am I stupid or jus missing something if I suggest ea studio as a solution to the traders I would need to guide them through ea studios workflow

Re: setting stop losses for crypto pairs

hanna if you have a model or idea in excel I can run it  through the software and send you the results

Re: setting stop losses for crypto pairs

Just run the Generator and generated a strategy with SL and TP for ETHUSD  for several seconds.

https://image-holder.forexsb.com/store/strategy-ethusd-sl-tp-thumb.png

Re: setting stop losses for crypto pairs

Popov is a superstar always on top of everything makes ea studio the go to software thanks

Re: setting stop losses for crypto pairs

salome wrote:

its jus to give the traders a ea solution as they not programmer not trying to integrate to software solutions that would stand separately as my original question on the crypto pair the stop loss and take profit was modeled and risk blur distribution produced which gave a range for the take profit so when I entered this into ea studio I couldn't generate strategies which I couldn't understand as this was the.most optimal area to take profit based on 6 million trails run so that why the original post of me saying am I stupid or jus missing something if I suggest ea studio as a solution to the traders I would need to guide them through ea studios workflow


Hi Salome, thanks for giving me a glimpse of your work flow, I bet it far more complex and you are trying to simplify for my understanding.

Indeed you are heavily tasked to make the job of your traders simple by brute force search on their behalf an optimum range of setting for them to use.  I wish when I 1st began, I have such tremendous support and be spooned fit with these optimum settings.  I was then searching for the best settings in FSB Pro, as it utilised different price settings such as HLOC and also different calculation of the parameters such as Exponential, Smooth, Typical etc and some indicators have 3 of such settings which yield 112 probability just for 1 indicator and I need to optimise each indicator by manually testing and search the optimal setting (out of these 112) for each entry indicator.  Too labour intensive for one to manually do it via demo testing each of these results over mths and hence I gave up after a while.  Furthermore, FSB Pro doesn't integrate the Strategies into 1 Portfolio Expert (unlike EA Studio) and hence setting up hundreds of FSB Pro strategies is too time consuming and thus explain my need to move to EA Studio as a faster and easier method to produce result.

Of course it was a very painful process to "abandon" all my years of hard work on FSB Pro and move to EA Studio, and re-develop my workflow for EA Studio from stretch but I reckon that the time and effort I save, it would be worth it in the long run.  As EA Studio is very easy to do, I gave up the need to develop my own trading idea to input into the EA Studio.

I let EA Studio do the initiate search and from there I use the good EA as Preset to craft the EA or customize it to my requirement via optimisation (in order words to zoom into that particular EA and search of the optimal settings step by step, manipulating the range I want (which I believe would produce more stable strategies that would last longer, as I hope).

I seem like you have to try to find a profitable workflow before you would recommend EA Studio to your traders.  That's a heavy task.  I don't think you are stupid, just that your traders are blessed to have such a tremendous support from you that do most of the difficult work for them and then hand down the results/setting/workflow for them to do their trading.  Rather spoilt bunch of traders, such good life.  We retail traders have to do whatever we can with such limited time and resources, with no additional support.

Can't your traders input their trading ideas and then let EA studio optimise the settings for them under the editor/optimisation tab?

When you said you based everything for money management and only 2 things to put you in and out of trade.  What is the 2 things again?  Highest Profit and lowest Std deviation as your 2 consideration?  I think I missed your point here.

Where is the money management part in play?

Thanks once again for sharing your insights into the world of professional trading environment that many of us would only dream of one day...

Cheers

Have a pleasant day ahead.

Regards
Hannah

Re: setting stop losses for crypto pairs

hanna
I would like to spend more time in ea studio but don't portfolio concepts for me is key what I did find or maybe am missing is when ea studio allocates 20 strategies that meet the workflow metrics that mainly in my case should stabilize the overall equity curve and this is just because u have to meet a monthly monetary target what I'm finding is I have 20 strategies package and ready to launch but I can't allocate lot sizes to each strategy based on portfolio management principals supplied by the performance metrics if this makes sense my understanding is that you have to have a number of portfiolios with diff lot size allocations when u launch the portfolio it prompts the lot size allocation and the I assume that lot size is allocate to all 20 ea but they all not equal so they can't have a generic position size in my eyes
if you launch multiple portfolios there might be correlation issues between portfiolios underlying the strategies then if you wanting to mitigate risk and launch over multi market accounting for correlation issues and different currency pair volatility issues makes it a bit  work

I also don't really want to keep writing into the forum with trival questions

maybe Mr popov has some ideas on how ppl like myself could allow for portfolio management principals to be applied to the ea

22 (edited by hannahis 2021-04-20 10:39:41)

Re: setting stop losses for crypto pairs

Hi Salome,

Money Management in terms of lot allocation.


EA Studio Portfolio Expert uses same size allocation for all the Strategy in the Portfolio Expert (PE).

One possible method to use money management is via Fxcopier.  3 methods

Method 1 = Group EA's Magic number with the same Lot allocation

Group all the EA's magic number with the same lot size allocation and create a list for Fxcopier to copy these EA with it's specific lot size eg. 1 lot


Fx copier allows you to copy trade based on magic number and you can list down which EA you want to copy trade using same lot size and use different fxcopier for different group of EA with different lot size.

So you can have many list of EA's magic number, eg List 1 EA magic group = fx copy lot size 1, List 2 = fx copy lot size 2 etc

I usually have a few main accounts that runs 300-400 EA and from this main account, I choose which EA to copy trade and I use Fx Blue to selection which EA to copy.  For different account, I choose different number of EA and different lot sizes.

In this way, I don't have to keep extracting the EA for different account money management methods.


Method 2: Group EA in terms of Ranking or Top performers and increase lot allocation based on the number of times the EA is repeated in the copy trade.

Eg create a list of EA eg Top 20, Top 30 and Top 50 EA list.


Copy trade Top 50 = 1 lot size (each), total = 50 lots

Copy trade Top 30 = 1 lot size, total = 30 lots

Copy trade Top 20 = 1 lot size, total = 20 lots


So in actuality I have allocated 3 lot size for Top 20 EA because Top 20 EA also are in the Top 30 and Top 50 list.

And Top 30, I've allocated 2 lots size and Top 50 EA only have 1 lot allocated.


So sometime I'm curious, whether I should use less EA but higher lot allocation or use more EA but spread my risk.

I sometimes use the above combination (that used 100 lot size) to compare using only Top 20 x 5 lot each (100 lot size), to see which one yields better result.

In this way, although all these EA are in the same Portfolio Expert, they can be copy trade with different lot sizes for money management.


Method 3: Use EA Studio to separate your EA into different lot size allocation

If you have 20 EA and you group 10 uses 1 lot and the other 6 with 2 lot and the remaining 4 with 5 lot, then you separate these EA into 3 different Portfolio Expert. 

You import your EA back and add those you want into the Collection and export the PE


This method seem the most straight forward in the short run but you have to keep creating these PE each time your Strategies changes in term of lot size allocation.

So I prefer my Method 1 and 2.  All I have to do is to create the trade list in a note pad and attached it in the MT4 file folder (list of magic numbers) for Fxcopier to copy as accordingly to whichever  lot size to use for whichever accounts.

Alright shall not bore you with any more trivial questions. Have fun figuring out whether EA Studio suits you.  Cheers



Popov,

Do you think you can have a feature in the Portfolio Expert whereby not only we can input the magic number base but we can choose lot size allocation.


Eg Magic number range 0 to 100 allocate 1 lot size

Magic number range 101 to 200 allocate 2 lot szie

so you have 4 input section for user to input 1) Magic number Range and 2) the lot size for these EA number range

So user can have 4 different lot size allocation

Regard
Hannah

Re: setting stop losses for crypto pairs

Popov,

Do you think you can have a feature in the Portfolio Expert whereby not only we can input the magic number base but we can choose lot size allocation?

I have an immediate ToDo (which had 10 tasks at the beginning, and after uploading 20, now it has 30 remaining!?!).
However, when I finish these jobs, I'll start working on a Portfolio Editor.
We will discuss the design and the functionality when it is time.

24 (edited by hannahis 2021-04-20 12:29:07)

Re: setting stop losses for crypto pairs

hannahis wrote:

Popov,


Do you think you can have a feature in the Portfolio Expert whereby not only we can input the magic number base but we can choose lot size allocation.


Eg Magic number range 0 to 100 allocate 1 lot size

Magic number range 101 to 200 allocate 2 lot szie

so you have 4 input section for user to input 1) Magic number Range and 2) the lot size for these EA number range

So user can have 4 different lot size allocation

Ok Popov, when you decided to do this Money Management feature so that EA Studio would appeal more to Trade Managers or most traders who essentially can't do without money management feature.  You may then consider the suggestions below.  I know you have lots of things in your plate, you know best what's your priority.  Meanwhile, keep up the good work.

Since most of the time, we don't allocate strategies in the PE so neatly in order to use the magic range method as suggested above.  The magic number input function can be different..

Eg, unless specify, all strategies in the PE will trade at the default lot size eg 0.1

Only those strategies in list 1 will trade in 0.5 lot size and strategies in the list 2 will trade in lot size 1.

The PE will have a feature to allow user to specify the name of the file (to be found in the File folder) and the corresponding lot size to be used. Similar to Fxcopier whereby we specify which magic number to copy trade and we input the name of the text file we saved in the File Folder.

So users can have 4 different input sections to list the name of the file (found in the file folder, PE will allow us to name this text file and have it in #include section to search for this file when PE is running and allocate the lot size for these magic list include file.

For example I create 2 Magic list/text files and put in the MT4 File folder, namely List1 and List2

When I install EA Studio PE, it has function to ask me what's my magic base number and the default lot size to use.

Below will have additional feature:


Money Management 1: __List1_ (specify the file name list whereby the magic number) and Lot size to use: 1 lot

Money Management 2: __List2__(specify the file name whereby the list of magic number are found) and Lot size to use: 2 lots

Money Management 3: _______

Money Management 4: _______


Essentially, it's integrating what I would normally do in FXcopier to attached the list of magic number for FX copier to copy trade with a specific lot size.


In this case, instead of separate this function, we integrate it into the PE itself.  We specify which strategies list are given which lot allocation.  If not specify, it would use the default one.

Re: setting stop losses for crypto pairs

wow hanna thanks for all that hope it can be done like ur thought process

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