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Posts: 16

Topic: Trailing Stop Loss in EA Studio = Stop Loss in Demo Trade

Hi,

I am testing a portfolio of 100 strategies where each one has been created with a trailing stop loss of 50 pips.

However, in the demo account on MT4, the first few trades have been created with a standard stop loss only, not a TSL.

I have now rechecked the trades and moved these to a new demo account and Im waiting for trades to be created so I can have the correct stats - I can provide screenshots later. I also noted that while the TSL was set between 50 and 50 on EA Studio, the SL was coming up on Oanda app with a fractional SL, e.g. 50.5

I would expect the fractional amount if I was putting in a price SL, but I specifically have chosen a TSL at 50 pip so I can manage my risk so this isnt the case.

Something from the portfolio is not being coded correctly, maybe?


Any ideas why this might be happening, please? It's central to my strategy to have a TSL and not a normal one.

Thanks,
Matthew

Re: Trailing Stop Loss in EA Studio = Stop Loss in Demo Trade

I have tested the issue with another account and the TSL is not translating into the trade.
I think this is a bug and I will raise this with some screenshots in the technical matters section.

I think this needs to be looked at with priority, thank you.

Re: Trailing Stop Loss in EA Studio = Stop Loss in Demo Trade

Trailing Stop Loss is Stop Loss that trails.

EA Studio sets a Stop Loss for the position. The EA trails the SL at the next bar opening if it is necessary.

Why?
- because MQL doesn't support Trailing Stop Loss
- and because trailing at Bar Open is the only way to guarantee a complete equivalence between the backtest and the real trading.

Re: Trailing Stop Loss in EA Studio = Stop Loss in Demo Trade

There are many alternatives to trailing stop loss. I use a moving average quite often... if you will plot that on a chart you will see that it does just what a trailing stop loss does.

My 'secret' goal is to push EA Studio until I can net 3000 pips per day....

Re: Trailing Stop Loss in EA Studio = Stop Loss in Demo Trade

Hi Blaiserboy, that is actually a very good suggestion, thank you. What a creative solution - my other post got inexplicably closed down before I had a chance to say that I had found a way through the query, but that helps too. I guess we would need to use a sensitive setting and with a bit of experimentation it should be possible to get around 50 pips, or whatever you need. Cheers!

Re: Trailing Stop Loss in EA Studio = Stop Loss in Demo Trade

If you have a look at the different ways that people trade the Williams Alligator system, you will see that traders use those three lines for trailing stops, ie conservative and aggressive depending on the line.

Also Heiken Ashi smoothed system uses the average as a take out.

and I could find many more.  you do not need something labeled 'trailing stop', you just need something that does the job effectively.

You might find that you want three or four potential exits.

My 'secret' goal is to push EA Studio until I can net 3000 pips per day....

Re: Trailing Stop Loss in EA Studio = Stop Loss in Demo Trade

Exactly, yes - that makes sense. As long as the trade gets stopped out then thats the main thing, but using indicators to do it could be even better than a trailing stop loss - since they are more relevant to the price / situation than a stop loss. Definitely something to look at now.

Re: Trailing Stop Loss in EA Studio = Stop Loss in Demo Trade

... and I just checked out the Williams Alligator - I had seen this many times before and it's more interesting than I thought. Very simple but a decent indicator, it's basically the golden cross but easier to manage in the EA. Will add this to the arsenal!

Re: Trailing Stop Loss in EA Studio = Stop Loss in Demo Trade

I manually trade using the alligator often, I use the fractals and the three ma's, the thing works..

My 'secret' goal is to push EA Studio until I can net 3000 pips per day....

10 (edited by hannahis 2020-06-12 17:03:40)

Re: Trailing Stop Loss in EA Studio = Stop Loss in Demo Trade

Blaiserboy wrote:

There are many alternatives to trailing stop loss. I use a moving average quite often... if you will plot that on a chart you will see that it does just what a trailing stop loss does.


Theoretically it sounds correct but in execution I think the difference between indicators and trailing is...

Indicators such as Moving Average cross over as a trailing depends on the Chart's time frame.  Whereas trailing is dynamic and moving according to the price movement without any "restriction" the indicators faced (due to their time chart, bar opening/closing)

For example, If I use a Moving Average indicator as an alternative to trailing, doesn't EAS opens and close only at Bar open or close?  So if I'm using H1 Time Chart, it would only close at 12:00 even if the Moving Average cross at 11:05. 

Unless I understood the EAS operating system wrongly, I assume it open and close position only at Bar (open/close) of the time chart.  If it's 1min time chart, it would check for trading opportunities at every minute and if it's H1 if would check whether the opening/closing conditions are (true/false) every hour and H4 at every 4 intervals. 

So if I use Moving Average in a H4 time chart, it doesn't trailing with every tick but will only close positions at the end of the H4 intervals if closing conditions are met (isn't it?).  Correct me if I'm wrong.  If I'm right then, trailing working far more effective than using indicators because the indicators aren't able to respond as fast as the trailing functions.

So using indicators as a trailing isn't the same as using a trailing function because in execution, the EA (such as a H4 EA) will not be closing immediately when the Moving average cross over but waits till the next 4hr bar to close it.  That's a very long wait.

Re: Trailing Stop Loss in EA Studio = Stop Loss in Demo Trade

So using indicators as a trailing isn't the same as using a trailing function because in execution, the EA (such as a H4 EA) will not be closing immediately when the Moving average cross over but waits till the next 4hr bar to close it.  That's a very long wait.

Actually Trailing SL and an exit at a trend following indicator are very similar. Both the indicator exit level and the Trailing SL move at a new bar.

In both cases, the Expert Advisor closes a position at the SL or the indicator value calculated from the previous bar.

12 (edited by hannahis 2020-06-13 11:43:35)

Re: Trailing Stop Loss in EA Studio = Stop Loss in Demo Trade

Popov wrote:

So using indicators as a trailing isn't the same as using a trailing function because in execution, the EA (such as a H4 EA) will not be closing immediately when the Moving average cross over but waits till the next 4hr bar to close it.  That's a very long wait.

Actually Trailing SL and an exit at a trend following indicator are very similar. Both the indicator exit level and the Trailing SL move at a new bar.

In both cases, the Expert Advisor closes a position at the SL or the indicator value calculated from the previous bar.


Thanks for the clarification.

I think you have highlighted the Key (definition) difference between EAS's Trailing and the Trailing function that is commonly known and understood by traders.


Understand how a trailing stop loss works. The trailing stop loss is a type of sell order that adjusts automatically to the moving value of the stock/forex. Most pertinently, the trailing stop loss order moves with the value of the stock/forex when it rises. 

This is the definition most traders understood when we talk about trailing function.

However, EAS trailing function is not trailing at every price movement but trailing at Bar Open/Close difference.

Hence, it's important for users to know that when they are requesting for a Trailing Stop loss in EAS, they will Never get the trailing function that is commonly understood (track price movement by every price change) but only trailing difference between bar open and close because that's how the software work, using Bar data and not tick data. (correct me if I'm wrong).



I think it's important to understand how the software work (trade at every bar close/open) so that we don't ask for things that is beyond the "structural" system of the software.  And we can start focus our energy on what is possible within the software's structural system.

Can Popov add a trailing function (by price movement) into the EA, yes of course he can but that would mean the backtesting result isn't reliable (but arbitrary) that would defeat the purpose of backtesting

Why trailing by price movement isn't possible with EAS, the primary importance to Popov is "Reliable Backtesting" and given the bar structure of the software, it's not possible to produce reliable backtesting result by price movement because the bar data (open, high, low, close) doesn't contain price movement information.  Unless Popov were to change the software's structural system by incorporating tick data, or using lower time frame (bar) data to track how price move for higher time frame, then we can start looking at the possibility of having trailing by price movement.  Otherwise, we have to compromise with backtest reliability which is of utmost importance to Popov and many other users.


And if trailing by price movement is important to you, it's time to think out of the box.

Re: Trailing Stop Loss in EA Studio = Stop Loss in Demo Trade

"Hence, it's important for users to know that when they are requesting for a Trailing Stop loss in EAS, they will Never get the trailing function that is commonly understood (track price movement by every price change) but only trailing difference between bar open and close because that's how the software work, using Bar data and not tick data. (correct me if I'm wrong)."

This is where I was misunderstanding the issue, thanks Hannah - I get this a bit better now. And I totally agree about thinking out the box - I am absolutely still on the uptrend of my learning curve and, when I began, I naively thought I could check some boxes in the software, set some parameters and come back after a few days to have a lovely fresh set of working strategies on my PC and I would be a millionaire by the end of the week. Oops.

Obviously, things are not like that, and learning the behaviours of the indicators, the strong points and the limitations of the software, markets, MT4 etc etc are key to managing the expectations of what you hope you get at the other end.

14 (edited by hannahis 2020-06-16 07:45:19)

Re: Trailing Stop Loss in EA Studio = Stop Loss in Demo Trade

Hi Mathew,

No worries, we all misunderstand things (now and then) and make a lot of assumptions in life but we are in the process of learning together smile

4 Stages of learning...

Stage 1: unconscious of our incompetence (most didn't know what they didn't know, like global warming has nothing to do with Co2, like those scientists who couldn't make up their minds whether the earth is warming or cooling that they decided to term it as "Climate Change", duh who didn't know climate is changing all the time!, these scientists finding are as reliable as the weather)

Stage 2: conscious of our incompetence (The more we learn, the more we realized we don't know much...this forum is for us to discover what we don't know)

Stage 3: conscious of our competence (while those who knows share with us their experience)

Stage 4: unconscious of our competence (those who don't think much of what they already know, auto pilot like the way we type or drive our cars and like Popov, where coding is as easy as breathing for him)

Re: Trailing Stop Loss in EA Studio = Stop Loss in Demo Trade

Yep smile Stage 2 here !

Re: Trailing Stop Loss in EA Studio = Stop Loss in Demo Trade

Just to complete the topic, I found some good background info on using Moving Averages as a trailing loss here. He also says MA can be used as an exit indicator

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=us00-j9Y4oU

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