1 (edited by hannahis 2015-05-01 09:57:59)

Topic: Dynamic Closing Condition

Currently, there are 2 groups of closing option, 1. Those in the 1st list such as Bar Closing, Pivot Pt, BB, Trailing etc and 2nd group belongs to those you choose with Bar closing and then you add your closing conditions.

Under the 1st group of closing option, I can only use one type of closing condition (if I'm not using the Bar closing option), eg. If I choose Pivot Points, I cannot use others such as trailing stop limit.  Also if I use Bar closing options, I cannot use Pivot Points or such as BB, Trailing, etc found in the first list. 


Popov, can you group all the closing options in 1 and 2 together so that I can use these following options

so that I can set closing as (a) Pivot Point, (b) Trailing stop limit and (c) add my own closing conditions with various indicators criteria.  Hence, my EA has 3 dynamic closing conditions (a, b or c).

This method would allow me to set a very dynamic way of closing my trades.  Right now I'm trying to find the optimise way to close my winning trades.  Often I have trades opened with high profits but because of a slow responsive or "static" closing conditions (only 1 closing theory), some of my positions closed at SL because it didn't reach my TP (thanks to you that you fixed the Breakeven, now I minimised my loss) or low profit, eg I have one position that was 2400 pips but because of my poor closing conditions, it droped to 100 pips and remain opened.

If I set TP too low, I missed those opportunities whereby my EA could reached above 1000 or 2000 pips.  If I set TP too high and when market make a sudden turn, all my profit turned to loss.  Given the volatility of market conditions, Closing conditions should be more dynamic so that a Strategy (trading theory) has the chance to fulfill it's maximise potential yet flexible enough to response to market changes.

With a dynamic closing conditions whereby I can use both the list of closing condition in option 1 and 2.  Then I can set my closing conditions with the possibilities of reaching it's maximize profit and when all else fail, i.e. market didn't continue as I predicted, then condition b) Pivot point such as S3, or c) trailing stop limit can provide a safety net for my strategy to fall in to protect my profits.

Hannah

Re: Dynamic Closing Condition

Closing Logic Conditions are available only with indicators that represent closing at Close price. This guarantees that when a closing event is satisfied it can close the position at the upcoming bar close.
The problem with other indicators is that they cannot guarantee that the closing price will be reached during the bar.

Normally all indicators are calculated on the Close price. In that way, at the end of the bar FSB Pro calculates the Closing  Logic Conditions and if any of them is satisfied, the program closes the position.

Imagine that the strategy uses other Closing point for example Bollinger Band. In that case, the program will use the Closing Logic Conditions values from the previous bar, because the indicators will be fixed. FSB Pro will know from the beginning of the bar that it must close the position, but it will wait to reach the Bollinger Band - something that may not happen. What we have to do in that case? To leave the position open? Later the market may reach the BB but the conditions may not be satisfied anymore.

The purpose of FSB is to bring rock solid strategy logic. It may be limited of options, but you cannot set a wrong logic even if you want. This is opposite of what MT4 provides. The user has a freedom to program whatever logic he wants and this is the reason most of the experts to be incorrect. I have seen tens of highly rated experts in the MQL code repository and 99% of them are totally or partially wrong. However, it's not a problem because that is what the brokers and Metaquotes want.

3 (edited by hannahis 2015-05-03 15:12:03)

Re: Dynamic Closing Condition

Thanks Popov for your explanation. 

Forgive me if I still don't fully understand you thoroughly.  And I'm not sure whether I was clear in my earlier question whereby you also understood my correctly.

From your explanation, group 1 indicators are conditions that may not be reached?  Such as BB, Pv Pt, etc?
And group 2 indicators are "fix" because most of them are calculated based on close price?

Since in the group 2 closing condition, we can choose to create various closing conditions and group them under option (a), (b) n (c) ...etc

Can we then use a more "dynamic" closing condition instead of the "fix" closing condition just from the group 2 indicators?

So if these two groups are grouped together, I have the option to choose 4 closing conditions with (a) BB, (b) Pv Pt, (c) Trailing limit stop and (d) my mixture of group 2 indicators.

With these 4 closing options, wouldn't the situation whereby you mentioned if the BB didn't reached, the trade will still be kept opened be prevented?  Because if option (a) didn't reached, we still have option (b) and (c) and (d), surely one of these options can be reached right, can't be none of these be reached at all times?  Since (d) is the fall back plan whereby it is "fix" based on the group 2 indicators, then we have a more fluid and dynamic closing conditions that incorporate the benefits of these 2 groups of indicators.

It's very assuring that you emphasis on solid strategy reasoning.  As for me, I'm just trying to stretch all possibilities and see how we can maximize potential without compromising stability.  I wish the above request can be done in such a way without compromising stability but yet offers the most flexibility out of the system to trade in a volatile market.

Hannah

Re: Dynamic Closing Condition

Make some screenshots if you can, really hard to follow the explanation without illustrations (for me).

Re: Dynamic Closing Condition

Hannahis

You are making some very interesting points.

As Footon says some illustrations would be helpful.

I am pretty suire that many readers will be interested in this duscussion.

Thank you for sharing your concerns.

daveM

My 'secret' goal is to push EA Studio until I can net 3000 pips per day....

Re: Dynamic Closing Condition

Thanks Blaierboy for your interest to bring this discussion further.

Attachment 1 shows group 1 indicators you can choose on how you would like to enter a market, besides Bar Opening, eg BB, Price Move, Pv Pt etc

Attachment 2 shows group 2 indicators which you can choose under "add an opening logic condition"

Attachment 3 shows under the closing condition, you have the option under "Advanced Indicator Properties" to choose to divide your closing condition into various logical groups such as (a), (b), (c),...(all).

Currently in the closing option, we can only choose either only 1 option in group 1 indicators such as Pv Pt, or  choose Bar closing and then add your closing logic conditions and divide them into group (a), (b) etc if you want.

Ideally I wish I can have the all the following closing conditions

(a) Pv Pt
(b) Trailing stop limit
(c) BB
(d) all my own list of indicators from group 2, eg CCI, MA cross etc.

so that If (a) is not met, my strategy can close by other options such as when (b) is met or when (c) is met or when (d) is met.  In this way, I will have a more dynamic closing conditions rather then being "fix" by group 2 indicators only.

I hope I have made myself clear...however, do feel free to ask for any further clarification.  I hope we can brain storm together to come up with a better closing options.

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Group 1 Closing Option.png 143.75 kb, file has never been downloaded. 

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Hannah

Re: Dynamic Closing Condition

Group 2 closing indicator options

Post's attachments

Group 2 Closing Options.png 160.13 kb, 1 downloads since 2015-05-05 

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Hannah

Re: Dynamic Closing Condition

Advanced Indicator Properties under closing conditions to group your closing logic into (a), (b), (c), ... (all)

Post's attachments

Group 2 Logical grouping a to all.png 159.84 kb, 1 downloads since 2015-05-05 

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Hannah

Re: Dynamic Closing Condition

I think you would like all of the closing options combined into one group so that you could have several 'OR' options....

So you could set a fixed value for take profit or stop loss, and also have a few different lines that you could exit at.....

In other words, have available something like ten different options including the fixed numbers.

We might as well include the ability to optimize by time frame in that bunch, for example you may be working on a 60 minute chart but want to exit when a 15 minute chart gives a signal.

I think that the program would need a rewrite for these to be possible. Well, perhaps only the indicators have to be restructured.

I definitely understand the flexibility that you want.

daveM

My 'secret' goal is to push EA Studio until I can net 3000 pips per day....

10 (edited by hannahis 2015-05-06 04:05:13)

Re: Dynamic Closing Condition

Cool DaveM, you could sum everything I want to say in a few words!!!

I like your input about the different time chart, excellent idea, can't wait to see these wishes come to fulfillment.  That would make FSB Pro superb and no any other competitor can ever match it.

Hannah

11 (edited by hannahis 2015-05-07 05:31:06)

Re: Dynamic Closing Condition

Hi Popov,

To follow up on our discussion, I'm curious to know whether by any chance my suggestion will be taken up by the software development team to consider the possibility of working on the various closing option?  Or this suggestion would just be another topic to put aside?

I see a lot of potential in the dynamic closing condition, however I don't have any software background to understand how possible and or the difficulties behind it and whether if this suggestion would be taken up, how soon or long would it be incorporated in the future software update? 1yr later or 1 month?

Do you think this suggestion is worth looking into it, or do I give up the idea or dream of ever having such possibility and end this discussion thread?

Hannah

Re: Dynamic Closing Condition

Observe his posts from today where he discusses the new indicator method. you may see an answer there....

My 'secret' goal is to push EA Studio until I can net 3000 pips per day....

Re: Dynamic Closing Condition

check this thread.

I think Popov has said we can create indicators to go into each area..... and that will meet your request.. (and mine also)

My 'secret' goal is to push EA Studio until I can net 3000 pips per day....

Re: Dynamic Closing Condition

check this thread.

I think Popov has said we can create indicators to go into each area..... and that will meet your request.. (and mine also)

http://forexsb.com/forum/topic/5324/cus … velopment/

My 'secret' goal is to push EA Studio until I can net 3000 pips per day....

Re: Dynamic Closing Condition

Thanks DaveM for your info and joining with me for the same hope smile

Hannah

Re: Dynamic Closing Condition

We will have to study the new tool to see if it will do what we need.

And then we will have to ask Popov to help us to design what we need to accomplish the goal.

I do not really have the understanding of this new tool and could not attend the seminar as it is Mother's Day here.

Time will tell, I am sure there is something that we can accomplish.

I just had a look at the thread for the new tool, I think it was developed only for those that are skilled in programming and will not be of much benefit to most of us. It is more a scientific approach and is going to take a lot of study to learn. That is disappointing, I would have preferred to see some flexibility in the program along the lines that we have been discussing.

I am surprised that Popov has introduced something that requires advanced programming skills as this software was initially intended to eliminate the need for programming, and. there is no hint of the changes that we request.

My 'secret' goal is to push EA Studio until I can net 3000 pips per day....

Re: Dynamic Closing Condition

Hi DaveM

I look at the discussion too and it was way beyond my understanding.

I share the same sentiments too about the original purpose of FSB Pro, that's for people with no programming knowledge to execute their strategies without the need for extensive programming knowledge.

Well, I do hope Popov pick up our suggestion here to develop a more dynamic closing conditions...hopefully more people who read this discussion, can join in to express their interest and support too smile

Meanwhile, just have to hope and wait and see whether Popov's plate is not too full with other demands so that he will give this suggestion a closer look and consideration.

Thanks DaveM for walking with me in this journey, otherwise I thought I'm the only person who has such a dream.  Appreciate your support.

Regards
Hannah

Hannah

Re: Dynamic Closing Condition

So far, from what I have seen, only a couple people are working with indicators to develop them, the other hundreds and thousands of users are not skilled enough.

I am not sure why Popov went down this path, there are hundreds of unanswered requests and instead he went this scientific programming approach and plans to spend the next month developing it.

My 'secret' goal is to push EA Studio until I can net 3000 pips per day....

Re: Dynamic Closing Condition

Blaiserboy wrote:

So far, from what I have seen, only a couple people are working with indicators to develop them, the other hundreds and thousands of users are not skilled enough.

I am not sure why Popov went down this path, there are hundreds of unanswered requests and instead he went this scientific programming approach and plans to spend the next month developing it.

What scientific programming approach?

Re: Dynamic Closing Condition

Well I don't have any programming knowledge to understand the bigger picture that Popov may see in the value of the "scientific" path, which I am in no position to question. 

I probably just have to trust Popov that he knows best and maybe this "scientific" path may lead to the answer to our suggestion...who knows.

Already Popov has made great improvement to FSB Pro beyond my expectations, especially when he enable FSB Pro to export EA directly to run in MT4, that's the improvement I appreciate most.

Well, let's keep our finger cross and hopefully Popov may come back to this suggestion...or maybe our dream is too "wild" that it is technically "impossible" for programmers?  I don't know what's the limitation or boundaries we are pushing...hence don't want to jump into any conclusion.

Hannah

Re: Dynamic Closing Condition

Popov wrote:

Imagine that the strategy uses other Closing point for example Bollinger Band. In that case, the program will use the Closing Logic Conditions values from the previous bar, because the indicators will be fixed. FSB Pro will know from the beginning of the bar that it must close the position, but it will wait to reach the Bollinger Band - something that may not happen. What we have to do in that case? To leave the position open? Later the market may reach the BB but the conditions may not be satisfied anymore.

Popov,

If we have more dynamic closing conditions, we would have more options if (a) didn't reached, there are (b) closing option and lastly the "usual" option as what the current FSB Pro is functioning.  Hence, we can reduce your concern mentioned above and if the position stay open, then it's the discipline of the trader to implement SL, BE and TP, there can't be a position that can remain open "forever" unless it is accumulating floating profit (then it's a good problem but margin call etc would have terminate a trade one way or another), if that's the case, then I wonder whether the trader has any trading strategy to start with.

Often, in real market conditions, there are "spikes" or sudden huge fluctuations and then things return back to "normal" again.  Or there is a sudden downtrend etc.  With dynamic closing features, our EA have a "better" performance because it is "flexible" to respond to different closing conditions.  Currently, if I use trailing stop loss, then I have to "give up" using my own closing conditions.

I do really wish you would consider the dynamic closing conditions to be a future FSB Pro features.  It would make our EA more robust and FSB Pro a top notch programme unmatched by others (as it is already an outstanding one to begin).

Hannah

Re: Dynamic Closing Condition

i think the stops are hard coded into the original program in such a way as to preclude what you describe.

At some time, Popov will probably rewrite the program to include these ideas and some others that he has become aware of. 

Just my personal thinking.

My 'secret' goal is to push EA Studio until I can net 3000 pips per day....